Question

Client Request Missing


Userlevel 6
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While I await a response from Karbon support wondering if anyone has experienced this…

I printed a Client Request Summary to add to my workpapers. In the printed summary there are comments and documents provided by the client which DO NOT APPEAR within the actual client request in Karbon. As in the comments and documents provided are not there.

Hoping this is an easy solve and more importantly an isolated incident. However I have had clients swear they uploaded documents and I never found them. Wondering if this issue has happened before.

The waiting right now on a support response is excruciating 😂


22 replies

Userlevel 7
Badge +19

Interesting! I have not run across this. I’m curious if it’s more than an isolated incident.

Userlevel 2
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This piqued my curiosity, so I looked at some of our individual tax return client requests for 2023 and this is not an isolated incident, @LD7E 

Sure enough, a Client Task that was marked as complete by the client with no attachment visible to me shows an attachment in the printed Client Request Summary. The client had emailed and said the form was already uploaded, and I assumed user error. 

The client task request was marked complete and a document uploaded on April 1, 2024 and this is the first I am becoming aware of the issue, so it may be more widespread. 😭 

Userlevel 7
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@Amelia Freeman FYI

Userlevel 6
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@Whitney Saunders darn. I was hoping isolated. No resolution yet. Chat support has sent it to the back-end team (They had no luck) and now it has been sent to the engineering team. Been with them for about 18+hours and no response yet. Tying to get chat support to escalate however no luck there either.

It does make me wonder now about each instance where a client indicated they sent a file and/or made a comment and it was not to be found. I only noticed because of the new Print Client Request Summary feature. Hoping for the best.

Userlevel 2
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@LD7E I submitted a help ticket via chat as well, so hopefully with more than one it will get escalated. 

I am questioning every client task that was marked as done with no uploaded document. Especially if the request said along the lines of, “let us know if you don’t expect to receive this document” where checked off with no uploaded file would indicate that. When I am able to free up more time to dig into this I will look into others to see if there are discrepancies. 

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, we would have had no indication otherwise!

Userlevel 4
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Hi there. I have escalated this to our engineering team and they will investigate it today. 

Userlevel 4
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Hi all. We have investigated and draft comments/attachments are appearing in the PDF e.g. your client has added the comment and attachment but has yet to hit enter. We are fixing this at the moment and will get a fix out as soon as possible. 

Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Hi @Amelia Freeman, thank you for the update. Chat Support reached out to me this morning. My concern with the bug relates to how the fix will be implemented. Support indicated the one work item I placed the issue on was manually resolved. The resolution implemented was to make the Print Client Request Summary now only show what is in the current client request rather than the “Draft” Comment and File that is missing. I would have thought the fix would be to make the Client Request show the Comment and File?

I did some testing afterwards and came up with the following:

  1. Sent a Client Request to myself,
  2. Made a Comment without clicking add,
  3. Printed Client Request Summary and the Comment does not show,
  4. Made a Comment and uploaded a file without clicking add,
  5. Printed Client Request Summary and the Comment and File does show,
  6. Clicked Cancel in the request,
  7. Printed Client Request Summary and the Comment and File does not show.

For me, it would seem that the client comment and file should always come into the Client Request even if the Add button is not clicked. Only if the Cancel button is clicked by the client should they not come in. I know from my use of the Client Request the Add button is duplicative and sometimes not seen. Duplicative meaning when I click the upload button (first step) the Windows file explorer tool opens and I can select the file and then I click Open which places the file within the Comment box. Karbon then requires me to click Add (A second step which in my browser is not always visible unless I scroll down). I know many clients have commented to me on this.

This client is extremely frustrated. They have repeatedly told me they made the Comment and Uploaded the file. If the fix is to remove the draft Comment and Uploaded file so the Print Client Request Summary matches the current Client Request I can only imagine the angst and frustration yet to come from the Client.

EDIT:

Another thought, I now have to question completeness and accuracy of all my work. From the client perspective once I select a file I feel I have done what I should. Maybe they did not need to place a comment, just upload a file. The client fails to click the Karbon Add, however they did not see it and feel they are done as they can see the file has uploaded and is in the Comment box. This happens a lot. On my end, if it is a new document I am not expecting it. When reviewing the return with the client they do not notice I missed the document they thought they uploaded. Yes, I know it is client error, however that is not a great response to the client. This is why I strongly feel that unless a Client clicks Cancel, the default for the Client Request should be to always provide me the Comment and File. The clients’ intent seems to be clear.

If this is not possible, would it be possible for Karbon to provide a report identifying all client requests where a Comment and/or file was made by the client and is considered a draft by Karbon due to the client not clicking add? This would at least provide a starting point for us to review each work item to determine if there are any completeness issues requiring either a revised/amended return or any other type of revision for non return work.

Userlevel 2
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@Amelia Freeman and @LD7E 

I was heading over today to comment similar to what @LD7E said, after the response from Karbon Concierge. I went to check the task checklist and assumed the missing file would be available but it has only been removed from the printed PDF record.

Especially in our realm where accurate reporting of information is required, I agree that Karbon should look into identifying client requests with uploaded files in a draft status at the very least, and look into making uploaded documents available even if the additional “Add” button is not clicked. Karbon seems to be storing all of this information already, so it is not an added capacity issue.

 

The client assumes they have done their part in providing us documents, as they have successfully uploaded the document, but Karbon is “holding” them, unbeknownst to us or the client, in a draft status. Choosing “Upload”, choosing the document, and confirming that it successfully uploaded should be the end of the process. 

If making these drafts available cannot be done, perhaps a notice within the client tasks that a draft upload or comment is pending from the client? This would allow us to reach out and assist if necessary.
 

Userlevel 6
Badge +9

Agree with everyone on all of the above. We cannot identify the missing pieces without scrubbing items one-by-one (which we can no longer do now that you have removed the drafts from our view); and now that this has been identified we have to question completeness and accuracy across a much larger body of work.

We need to be able to identify all impacted work items in case there is critical work that is impacted; resulting in amendments and such. If there were items uploaded (even if not fully submitted) that we were unaware of; but from a client’s perspective they provided to us and they were not included on their returns, this could create large penalties in the future and tax notices that we will have to manage and sort through (on our dime). While I hope that this was not as widespread of an issue as I’m imagining, we currently have no way to tell how many work items might have been impacted. As @LD7E mentioned, the client’s intent is clear and if Karbon can see the item, why not provide that to us as this is critical for us to receive to complete the work accurately, or at a minimum have some way to tell that there are items sitting in a draft status.

Making it disappear from our view doesn’t solve the issue in my opinion, and I am left even more concerned. We rely on Karbon as a critical component for collecting client documents, and our clients rely on the tools we’ve provided to them and rely on us to perform the work in a complete and accurate fashion. We need a better resolution, and need to have all impacted work identified.

 

Userlevel 4
Badge +5

Hi all. 

Thank you for the additional details on the issues you are facing. I believe there are two issues identified here: 

  1. Clients are not realising they need to click ‘add’ when attaching files and this means the attachment has not come through to Karbon on the client request 
  2. When in a draft state, these are appearing on the PDF client request summary and exposing the first issue 

Because we can’t confirm if an attachment is a draft vs the client thinks they have added them, we can’t expose these in Karbon and won’t be including these in the PDF summary as it needs to match. However, I understand there is a user experience issue here for your clients and we will look into how we can improve this and make it clearer. 

We are investigating if we can make a report to show which work items or requests have draft attachments. 
 

Userlevel 6
Badge +7

Hi @Amelia Freeman, while Karbon investigates the ability to produce a report, is there a timeline for the overall implementation of changing the Print Client Request Summary (CRS) to not include the draft comments and/or document title?

My thoughts here relate to worst case scenario where there is no report and we lose visibility into the work which may have drafts in the CRS. My preference absent a Karbon report would be a waiting period for the CRS implementation fix to allow us to start the process of printing these for all work so we can identify any with drafts. Not the best option, however there are really large potential ramifications here for any affected clients as well as business reputation for us.

Maybe there could be even be a bulk Print Client Request Summary option for all work prior to the implementation. That would be extremely beneficial over the time this will take manually.

Userlevel 7
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Count this as a vote for better client experience in the portal. 😁 Thanks for all the great communication, @Amelia Freeman.

Userlevel 4
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@LD7E - based on the feedback here we will release the fix in a week to give you some time. 

Userlevel 6
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@max, Good morning Max...based on Amelia’s comment it appears a report will not be available. Question for you regarding the Karbon API.

I have not looked into the API since our last conversation. Solo owner firm and a list of other excuses. When I look at the API documentation I see in the Schema for the Get Command under Client Task Comments it looks like the Command could find Client Tasks in Draft status (Or maybe it applies to only the Last Comment rather than all comments). Do you know if this sounds accurate? Could be a huge time saver over printing all Client Request Summaries and then comparing each to the current Karbon work item.

Of course then there would be the time spent figuring out how to make it work. However it may be a good tool to implement going forward as it could serve as a check we run to look for Draft Comments proactively.

Userlevel 6
Badge +9

@Amelia Freeman is your team able to identify if this has been occurring since the inception of Client Tasks or after a specific set date? We have found a few impacted items already and just started to scrub a small portion of this year’s work. This is going to take some time, and would really be most ideal (and in my opinion, the right thing to do) if your team could identify the impacted work items for your customers. If we are expected to scrub the data, most especially if this has been occurring for longer than this calendar year, this is going to take us longer than one week to complete as we are trying to fit this in between our billable work.

Userlevel 2
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At the very least, @Amelia Freeman  instead of removing these draft comments from the printed PDF, the draft files and comments should be labeled as such on the printed PDF instead of omission. This way, we know the file did not officially get submitted to us, but DOES allow us to reach out to the client and obtain the file they intended to submit. 

Userlevel 4
Badge +5

@Kim Clemmer @LD7E we are still looking into if a report is possible. However, I would recommend reminding your clients that they need to click add once they have attached the file. The process is similar to attaching a file to an email. They need to upload the attachment and then send or in this case ‘add’. 
 

Userlevel 7
Badge +19

@Kim Clemmer @LD7E we are still looking into if a report is possible. However, I would recommend reminding your clients that they need to click add once they have attached the file. The process is similar to attaching a file to an email. They need to upload the attachment and then send or in this case ‘add’. 
 

We cannot rely on clients, lol. They will always find a way to skip the last step. Any way to just remove the need for the last step (and eventually get a client action down to only one step) would be ideal.

Userlevel 7
Badge +19

@max, Good morning Max...based on Amelia’s comment it appears a report will not be available. Question for you regarding the Karbon API.

I have not looked into the API since our last conversation. Solo owner firm and a list of other excuses. When I look at the API documentation I see in the Schema for the Get Command under Client Task Comments it looks like the Command could find Client Tasks in Draft status (Or maybe it applies to only the Last Comment rather than all comments). Do you know if this sounds accurate? Could be a huge time saver over printing all Client Request Summaries and then comparing each to the current Karbon work item.

Of course then there would be the time spent figuring out how to make it work. However it may be a good tool to implement going forward as it could serve as a check we run to look for Draft Comments proactively.

@LD7E I looked into the API and the documentation supports seeing comments and attachments, but I couldn’t get it to work so I couldn’t test it. I’m not sure if it will show the draft info.

Userlevel 7
Badge +12

We cannot rely on clients, lol. They will always find a way to skip the last step. Any way to just remove the need for the last step (and eventually get a client action down to only one step) would be ideal.

I know personally I wouldn’t like if a “draft” comment auto-posted or sent to my accountant without me clicking “add” or “send” - but that might be my general email anxiety speaking 🫠

A warning when a client closes the portal/tab like “You have a draft comment - are you sure you want to leave?” would be good. Combine that with auto-saving the draft in the client’s portal view (and it obviously being a draft comment, with some kind of visual indicator), so that if they go back to the portal it’s really clear to them they didn’t actually send the comment. That way as well if we were doing a screenshare to troubleshoot it would be obvious that the client missed a step

Userlevel 4
Badge +5

Thanks @Rebecca Williams That is the kind of thing I’d like to explore as well. 

 

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